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Benoît Octave - The problem with the American

| 70.121.29.xxx | 2008-04-03 19:36:39

...is that it seems not to realize that 96 percent (ninety-six) of the worldwide population doesn't live in the U.S... No propaganda involved:)

FOARP - Rather off-base don't you thi

| 138.37.250.xxx | 2008-04-04 11:39:45

Are you suggesting that the same bias is also affecting the BBC, NHK, Dong-Sen, the Australian Broadcasting Corporation, AFP, RIAN-Novostii and all the other news networks across the world who have been concentrating on the news coming out of Tibet for the past month or so? You might as well join with those people who say that the press concentrates only on the bad news stories coming out of Iraq, or Afghanistan, or Zimbabwe, or the Sudan, or any other place on which the global spotlight is shining because something newsworthy is going on there. Are you saying that, for example, today's shooting of eight unarmed protestors in Sichuan is un-newsworthy and that, instead, the Times should run a fluff piece on economic growth?

Newspapers will stop running bad-news pieces on China when China stops producing them, and since the current government seems particularly good at making bad news this won't be any time soon.

Christine - Nope. Not off base.

| 71.94.128.xxx | 2008-04-04 12:21:03

...as an American, perhaps I should rephrase and say "American media" but having said that, nope. not off base at all to point out that there is A LOT more to China than only the negative stories that are repeatedly highlighted in the media.

a fluff piece on economic growth is only fluff if there are no numbers to back it up.

anyways, my assumption is you have never visited China first hand nor have you had the personal experience of knowing a side of China that extends beyond news headlines.

it's ok. those of us who have grown up in the west and actually spent time living in China are used to people not understanding where we're coming from.

FOARP - Errm . . .

| 138.37.250.xxx | 2008-04-05 14:37:33

Well, I did live for five years in Nanjing and Shenzhen as well as spending a year in Miaoli in Taiwan - but this is besides the point as many of the journalists (such as Jane Macartney for The Times for example) are people who have been in China since the early eighties.

Now, having lived in China long term is no guarantee of expertise on the place - I'm sure you've met enough people who have been in China for years but cannot speak the language and have little understanding of the country's culture or history. However, most of the correspondence for the major broadsheet newspapers and serious news sources here in the UK at least are people with a long-running connection to China, and certainly do not fit into the 'been here years and cannot say "hello"' bracket.

And yes, more stories on economic growth with no counter-balancing stories on the negative effects of this growth or on the human rights situation would be just fluff of the kind which is seen in a lot of the Chinese media. What would you say if a newspaper ran a story on the economic situation in Iraq or Afghanistan without mentioning the words 'insurgency', 'bombing', 'Taliban' or 'terrorist'? Coverage without reporting positive stories is also unbalanced, but I am not aware of any of the major serious news outlets that are engaging in such coverage.

Now, I understand that your main point was that they were just doing this because these kind of stories are easy to sell to the public. Of course, some news sources (like the BBC for example) are funded by public sources, and thus do not rely on advertising revenue - but still report bad news as well as 'good'. Other news sources which sell mainly to business people (like the Economist for example) would presumably have just as good a market for 'good' news stories as for bad ones, but they also choose to present a balanced view of China.

You seem to be presuming that all that has to happen for someone to become positive about China and its government is just to see China as it is. In five years in mainland China I saw protests by farmers against the seizure of their land for paltry compensation outside of Nanjing, I saw a protest by teachers against the dismissal of a lecturer, I saw the anti-Japanese protest that students in Nanjing put on, I saw the incredibly high levels of pollution in Lanzhou and outside the checkpoints around Shenzhen (including heavy particulate air-born pollution), I saw a impromptu strike by employees at a local factory. In fact I saw a lot of bad stuff which seem a lot more remarkable than the positive things I saw, but as the man said, "Reality does have a well-known anti-China bias".

The only thing other thing I can say is that headlines like 'eight unarmed protestors shot dead' highlight themselves - they do not require an anti-china media to highlight them for us. Given the choice between putting a story on yesterday's shootings on the front page and another story about double-figure growth which would you choose?

Christine - What does FOARP stand for?

| 71.94.128.xxx | 2008-04-06 02:32:46

...with all due respect sir, I do appreciate your comments and you make some strong points but honestly, you are not representative of most people's opinions either and would have to admit that your views are very biased towards China.

Out of curiosity, what does FOARP stand for? Google search results turned up Fear Of A Red Planet. Hardly an objective voice with genuine insight to add to this discussion IMHO. Just sayin'

lonnie - Way off base

| 116.21.81.xxx | 2008-04-05 23:18:13

We decry the state of repression in China, but often don;t look at the forces that drive what appears in print in the west. See: http://youtube.com/watch?v=eZkDikRLQrw and send a FB hug to Rupert Murdoch.

Of course the western media is biased. People oddly love drama far more than they enjoy positive stories or tales of engagement.

Jacob Redding - Double Sided Bias

| 124.64.110.xxx | 2008-04-06 01:00:11

I would agree that the U.S Media (and most western media) tends to only focus on the negative stories coming out of China but I would back up FOARP mention that the U.S/Western media tends to only focus on negative news from any developing country and not just China.

I would love a nice story about how people are rebuilding their lives in "insert-wartorn-country-here". I'd also the U.S/Western media to do more coverage of the incredibly amazing feats that the Chinese government & citizens have done to get ready for these Olympics as well as developing their country.

Off the top of my head I would love to see the following stories on U.S tv (in regards to China)
-The rivers in Beijing and Shanghai being cleaned up
-New hutongs (a form of housing) being built for families that can't afford it
-Air Quality in Beijing being improved with marked year over year improvement (despite it still being horrendously polluted)
-Subsidized daily bills (electricity, etc.) for poor families
-Labor laws that are more strict and more "for the employee" tha almost any other country and 1,000 times better than those in the U.S.

I could go on and on. China is not the horrible place the U.S/Western media makes it out to be.

Now with all that said I will offer a different perspective. If the U.S/Western did not report all of these bad stories I'm not sure who would. The Chinese government surely would not. Over the past few weeks the Chinese TV Stations have been running amazing Pro-China, Anti-Western media, Keep-Tibet-within-China stories that are chocked full of incredible tidbits of completely fictious information.

The most egregious would be when they replayed the infamous "Tibet was, is and always will be a part of China" youtube video on Chinese TV as "fact" that people around the world want Tibet to be a part of China including pointing to the fact that 140,000 comments were in support of it. If you read those comments that are some of the most racist comments I've ever read by almost all nationalities.

The great irony of it all though is that the video "didn't exist" on youtube (i.e. the great firewall blocked it). If you watch/read the Chinese TV stations and newpapers it is amazing the claims they make to justify their actions across the board.

OK I am making a point here. I agree with you in that the
Western media is heavily slanted to a single view (i.e. bad China), however, Chinese media is heavily slanted to a single view (i.e. Good China)

If you mix the two together you can get some semblance of what is actually happening within/in-regards-to China.

Sadly the places that you can put these two together are not within China.
If I would like another opinion I can't simply pick up another newspaper with a different perspective, turn the television channel, turn on Cable Access, or read a different blog.

The U.S media needs a big overhaul and steps need to be taken now to ensure a less biased media and continued freedom of the press as well as freedom of information for all citizens. However, if I had to choose the U.S's system over China's hands down it would be the U.S system even in its current state.

I'd also point out that a large chunk of Chinese students and the English speaking population within mainland China specifically seeks out foreign information, generally American (in my experience), to supplement the Government controlled news. Despite the reports enraging them at times it definitely opens up dialog and makes them question their own Government as well as others. I've had many great conversation with students that start only after they read the reports from the western media and see a different side.

Maybe the western media has taken a queue from the Chinese government in its use of public shaming? Although I highly doubt its anything that deliberate but rather dumbed down to "infotainment" as brought up by ben ross's blog post.

In closing: I agree with you fully but the irony of this post, for me at least, is that you are posting positive information about China as well as your opinions about it but you are only doing it because you live within a governmental structure that allows you to. You are part of the collective knowledge/reporting that I use to form my opinions of China.
I also hope that you are part of the collective process that will eventually change the Western media's viewpoints towards China. Keeping talking to those 3-letter companies, keep blogging, keep posting video and hopefully you can be the force of change.

(yes that was very cliché but I also truly believe it)

Chris Amico - A bit more

| 75.18.254.xxx | 2008-04-06 02:38:44

Just gathered a bit of the discussion here:

http://www.chrisamico.com/2008/04/06/does-western-media-get-it-wrong-on-china/

Short version: China won't get "balanced" coverage until journalists can move about freely in the country. And even then, it's not really what the government or many of its citizens seem to want.

There are real costs to China's economic growth, real reasons behind T1betan protests, real problems in the country. That's true of every country. As the above commenter notes, leaving out either side is irresponsible.

There isn?t nearly enough news coming out of China. What we get on this side of the Pacific is incomplete, often anecdotal, and for the most part written for an audience with little background on China.

The answer here is more news, more information, more voices. If China?its government and its people?want truly fair, factual reporting, the door is theirs to open.

Jacob Redding - I agree...

| 124.64.110.xxx | 2008-04-06 04:30:26

In regards to the recent riots in Lhasa what I have at my disposal is roughly the following

1) The west saying China was bad
2) China saying it was the "Dalai Clique" and the Chinese government was good.

and..
3) The knowledge that all tourists, journalists and all forms of foreign media were immediately removed from Lhasa despite requests to be allowed in.

#3 is a huge key in all of this. If you don't have information or the ability to obtain information what are you supposed to do?
Apparently the western media's response has been to sensationalize the entire event and latch onto to the tiny tidbits of information that they were able to get.

I often think of the US-led war in Iraq when thinking of Lhasa. The US went to war and many people believe that it is/was not the right to do. Regardless of what your opinion a fact to remember is that the war is reported better than almost every other way in history. Sadly tons of journalists have taken the risk to go to war simply to report it and many have, again sadly, given their lives to this task.

In China a domestic or foreign reporter has no such opportunity. If the government makes a controversial move there is no reporting, there are no "embedded journalists", there is no information about it.

So what is the western media to do?

The answer to this "China bashing" in the western media might be as simple as allowing real reporting and journalism.

FOARP - Well . . .

| 138.37.250.xxx | 2008-04-06 05:22:40

Yes it does stand for 'fear of a red planet' (a name I got from the title of an album by classic hip-hop group Public Enemy) as you would have been able to see if you had gone to my website - which unfortunately is blocked in China as it is on Blogspot. And, yes, I have formed rather a negative view of the Chinese government from my time there - but hardly much more negative than many other China expats, as you can see from the above comments.

Insight is something that you find in the content of what someone says, not in the packaging in which it comes.

Also, I have to ask - what kind of news do western news outlets run on western countries? Is the coverage given to the United States by Le Monde, Der Spiegel and The Guardian as positive as the United States deserves? Coverage right now is pretty much concentrated on the anniversary of the assasination of MLK, the sub-prime mortgage fiasco, Guantanamo, Iraq and the war on terror. The only story which is covered fairly positively right now is the candidacy of Barrack Obama. Likewise, if you examine the news about Europe in the America media you will see many stories about the rise of islamic extremism, anti-Americanism, ageing populations and ethnic tensions - things that most Europeans would agree give people in the US a very slanted view on life over here.

Bad news sells because it's interesting, because it gives you a view into the underside of that country, and because people care far more about preventing injustices than they do about creating wealth. It is also important as disasters have a way of spreading - here in London no sooner has some event happened in a far corner of the globe than you will find one of London's ethnic groups protesting outside an embassy, shortly followed by a stream of refugees arriving from that country. In a globalised world we therefore simply cannot afford to ignore events like those of the past month in the western areas.

Is there positive news to report about China? Of course there is. Is this news as important as the current events in Thibet, demonstrative as they are of the autocratic rule of China's government? I would say not, I would say that understanding the true character of a government that rules over 1.3 billion people and a country that has the potential to become the world's strongest power is more important - but that's my opinion.

Christine - Hmmm...

| 71.94.128.xxx | 2008-04-06 13:16:57

well, imho...there's more than enough experienced voices out there highlighting the negative aspects of China's politics.

as you will see from my podcasts interviews and opinions, i tend to steer clear of politics. anywhere for any country...including the US. I focus on the people and I speak of the side of China I know well, which is business. in this space, there's actually a lot of positive news to report in spite of politics. so that's where i'm coming from.

this may sound like a naive fluff piece to those that already have already drawn their lines in the sand when it comes to China...but change comes from within and it starts small and the majority doesn't always understand or care for the approach when it's different from the mass mentality. change in China comes from building bridges and focusing on common ground rather than pointing out existing gaps and widening them more with misunderstanding and ignorance. that would be the easy way to go. to point out the obvious about what's wrong with any country. it's an easy bandwagon to ride.

my whole issue is not whether or not the world should know about the negative news about China's politics -- it's that they only see one side of China. how can anyone claim to form a valid opinion of a country they only see and read one side of? they can't.

good news may not sell as well, but for those that I reach and those that I interview, it's interesting to hear insight on China that is never reported in the mainstream international media.

my stories of green initiatives, corporate social responsibility, why american companies fail in china, special olympics, beijing olympics...i don't make them up. i interview people first hand. i get their insights and they are just as valid as yours. i take the stories and i amplify them for those that find it interesting. may not be interesting to you but then again, you're not my audience and you have plenty of other outlets to learn about the side of China you know.

in the meantime, thanks for reading and participating in the discussion. i appreciate it.

Chris Amico - Good/Bad news is the wrong iss

| 75.18.254.xxx | 2008-04-06 13:42:23

well, imho...there's more than enough experienced voices out there highlighting the negative aspects of China's politics.

Nope, not nearly enough. I'll say again, China needs more coverage.

Good news v. bad news is the wrong debate.

We need to know what's true, what's interesting, what's important.

Is the air quality in Beijing better than last time I was there? How much better? What's driving the change?

Why is China's legal structure improving faster in business law than tort and criminal law? (Or is this really the case?)

What's driving the increasing militancy of T1betan youth? Religion? Politics? Economics?

These are real issues. Facts are what they are.

Good or bad news is only a matter of spin.

Christine - I agree

| 71.94.128.xxx | 2008-04-06 14:07:50

Chris, I understand what you mean. As Jacob mentioned previously, you're only going to really get the truth after looking at the good and the bad and drawing your own conclusions.

I guess I'm just saying, I like to focus on business and actually, if you guys have a listen to many of my podcasts, they are much more informative than a press release imho and they are still grounded in fact.

Just seems to be different angles to cover and listen to. I stick with business because it's what I know. Hence the name The China Business Network. So admittedly, it's biased towards business. So in business, facts are what the are also.

Fact. A growing % of VC money going to China is now earmarked for clean tech and green initiatives.

Fact. There's an independent think tank called Downons Institute that was recently formed by the China Entrepreneurs Club (a who's who of Chinese businessman such as Jack Ma of Alibaba, etc) They have a grassroots project called China Green Companies that they've enlisted help from key green sector folks in the US to cooperate with them on to assist with sustainable development.

Fact. The New Labor Contract Law that went into effect in January is getting mixed reviews to the point where it's still being debated in Beijing.

etc etc...so, these are more business facts and maybe what i'm saying is, for those looking to seek answers to specific questions regarding details of what's being covered in areas of politics and religion, my platform may not cut it for seeking those facts. Sites such as Danwei and Global Voices Online seem to cover issues a lot better.

my reference to the western media being misinformed about China is more on a general level that only one side of China is painted but I'm sure you'll agree, it doesn't represent a whole picture. at least, that's my opinion.

FOARP - Building Bridges

| 138.37.250.xxx | 2008-04-06 15:35:18

"you have plenty of other outlets to learn about the side of China you know." - there is little to be had in trying to learn about something which one already knows unless you do not know it as well as you think you do. I try to learn from the people who think differently to myself.

"change in China comes from building bridges and focusing on common ground rather than pointing out existing gaps and widening them more with misunderstanding and ignorance."

Most people, when aluding to their national character make reference to historical events which support their conjecture. Americans refer to the war of independence to show their commitment to individualism and liberty. British refer to 1940 to show their independence and stiff upper-lip. Would it be out of line to ask whether the 20th century history of China reflects bridge building and focusing on common ground? Do we see evidence of this attitude in Chinese or Taiwanese public life?

It would also be a pity if an over-commitment to building bridges and accentuating those points that bring people together caused certain facts to be under-emphasised or omitted.

Now, in my own area of IP (specifically patenting) we have seen considerable progress since China joined the WTO - but it must be admitted that this progress has been somewhat selective and, being a legal matter, does of course involve political aspects that somewhat complicate it. I would not be honest if I were to ignore this when discussing the problems facing IP.

If I were to discuss the impact of the Beijing olympics, today's demonstrations in London (in which I took part) would certainly be mentioned as negative publicity, even if the olympics eventually have a positive outcome for Beijing. If discussing green initiatives, I would examine why they were felt to be so necessary. If I were to examine why western businesses find it difficult to enter the Chinese market, corruption would take its place next to logistical, quality control, marketing and human resource concerns.

These, of course, are the things that I would do. I do not run the China Business network - and my hat goes off to anyone who can set up a website that provides useful and balanced information to a wide range of business people.

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Copyright (C) 2007 Alain Georgette / Copyright (C) 2006 Frantisek Hliva. All rights reserved.

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